Author Topic: dwarf war bear needs some rules  (Read 495 times)

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Offline wilful

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dwarf war bear needs some rules
« on: December 02, 2010, 11:13:28 AM »
I just love this miniature from scibor: Dwarf Lord on War bear.

of course there are no GW rules for dawi war bears, but GW emphasise repeatedly that if you don't have a rule for a special figure etc, you are welcome to make one up, as long as your opponent agrees it's fair.

So what do you think would be OK for a war bear? I'm thinking:
M WS BS S T W I A LD
6  6   -    5 5  3  7 3 -

Special rule loner (can't attach to a unit). What about fear? god know I'd be ♥♥♥♥ scared.
Available to lords, thanes and DaemonSlayers only.

Points cost?? 
bite my shiny metal arse

Offline Vintaren

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Re: dwarf war bear needs some rules
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2010, 11:35:10 AM »
Has barding so needs an armor save or ward save.... movement 6 before or after barding? Definitely scary so fear sounds fair.. possibly terror to other animal types IE beastmen skaven. Not sure on points though, it's definitely a great looking model.

Offline SH4DOWSL4Y3R

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Re: dwarf war bear needs some rules
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2010, 12:08:45 PM »
i would suggest a minor lowering of initiative as most largish creatures arent the fastest things around, and an armored bear doesn't seem like it would exactly be a super fast hitter, i'd probably lower it by 1 or 2 points. as far as points value goes i would say somewhere between 110-140 points maybe, depending on whether it has any ward saves or anything. well that's my opinion anyways.
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Offline wilful

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Re: dwarf war bear needs some rules
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2010, 12:15:49 PM »
opinion is all we're looking for!

Yeah I agree 5 init would be much more reasonable.

Though reportedly bears can run as fast as a horse, so move 8 could be justified. But ginormous bears wearing armour I don't think so.
bite my shiny metal arse

Offline Crivens

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Re: dwarf war bear needs some rules
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2010, 05:03:24 PM »
Though reportedly bears can run as fast as a horse, so move 8 could be justified. But ginormous bears wearing armour I don't think so.
They can run as fast as horses. Bloody scary when you think about it. So barded I'd say move 6" or 7"
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated” - Sir Thomas More

Offline Emperor Fooble

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Re: dwarf war bear needs some rules
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2010, 07:57:48 PM »

Firstly I am happy, with foreknowledge to include custom things in games :D

Some comments from my experience with multiple big gribblies in fantasy (both doing as I say, and well...not doing what I say, want or would rather they didnt)

140pts is pretty cheap. Most big things are expensive, example Bretonnian hippogryph is 200pts, Orc Wyvern is a bucket load, dragons are multi-hundreds ect.

Its statline has, to me some issues. For starters, WS 6 is way over done, i would say 2-4. WS 6 is a Bretonnian Lord, someone who has been trained from birth to swing his sword/mace around in astonishingly difficult and years to master performances. WS3 is the average human soldier who has had decent training (think empire swordsman) and know how to handle themselves and their weapon. A bear is just swinging its claw studded paws at things and making loud noises.
Bret hippos are WS 4 and they are intelligent, I would make the bear WS 3.
I 7 is omg huge, thats like elves, Skaven and magical item boosted people. I 2-3 more likely. Its covered in armour, has a heavy dude on its back, and its primary method of fighting involves standing up and biting.


I would remove the loner rule, there is nothing in the dwarf codex that would give the rider/mount a look out sir roll, as there are no unit options for cav/monstrous cav.
I would possible ban it from joining slayer units (lol) and gunpowder squads as the noise could frighten it despite training

It should have gromril armour (still only counts as barding for the rider) and armour piercing, metal gauntlets + bear strength = ouch.

Cause fear, thunderstomp (win)
I'm thinking low movement, 4-5, but a bonus to charge and flee as those buggers can really get moving when they need to, but not consistently.
Fire attacks cause fear against the bear (and rider as the bear bucks)
The lords leadership range is increased as if he were mounted on a monstrous mount on a big base (ala an orc warlord on wyvern has 18inch range)

Should be a lord and runelord only thing, as most heroes dont have access to big mounts. And I cant see it fitting with slayers. Not only cos they would like to fight it, but just does not sit right with their fluff.

Points wise I would be looking at 250 at least.
It is damn painful (3+d6 S5 armour piercing attacks on top of the crazy shizzle a Dwarf Lord can dish out, yeah speaking from experience) and although It can be singled out by shooting, Dwarfs can be stupidly unkillable. RO re-roll armour save, RO strength greater then 5 counts as 5 and 4+ ward for one amusing combo.
Dont forget RO 2+ ward vs shooting.
Or RO strength greater then 5 counts as 5 + RO Toughness +1 for giggles. Cannons wound on 5+ oO

Offline Crivens

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Re: dwarf war bear needs some rules
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2010, 02:09:52 PM »
I can't see the point of the fire attacks causing fear. You could apply it to most creatures in the Warhamer rulebook.
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated” - Sir Thomas More

Offline Emperor Fooble

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Re: dwarf war bear needs some rules
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2010, 07:23:11 PM »
Some creatures have that rule, and ranged flaming attacks cause fear against things now, cant remember the exact criteria.


Offline Crivens

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Re: dwarf war bear needs some rules
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2010, 11:00:02 PM »
What, really? Wow. Must read new rulebook more
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated” - Sir Thomas More

Offline Emperor Fooble

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Re: dwarf war bear needs some rules
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2010, 09:25:54 AM »
What, really? Wow. Must read new rulebook more


Pg 69 BRB

Flaming attacks
Enemies with flaming attacks cause fear in war beasts, cavalry and chariots
Can re roll to wound rolls against enemies in a building
Regenerating creatures cannot use their regen save vs flaming attacks. Regen creatures that lose a wound to a flaming attack lose regen for that phase (eg shooting phase)

Offline Crivens

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Re: dwarf war bear needs some rules
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2010, 05:17:47 PM »
Coolies. Thanks bru
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated” - Sir Thomas More

Offline Maudy

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Re: dwarf war bear needs some rules
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2010, 03:06:01 PM »
Nice mini! The helmet seems a bit bland though... Yeah, a dwarf lord on a friggin heavily armoured bear, that would cause fear AT THE LEAST. I'd be pushing for Cause Terror.
Keep him a bit more in-line with the shuffling dwarves though I think, less movement but tons of armour. Yes, Crivens stated that they can sprint as fast as a horse. So can a saltwater crocodile, albeit only in a straight line. You'd still pop out brown bricks though. Anyway, got sidetracked a bit there. A bear would be a little weighed down by all that armour AND a fat armoured dwarf swinging an axe or two around! I'd take the movement down to 5' (remember, you add d6 for charging) but make him Monstrous Cavalry, which would additionally give him Impact Hits. Not too shabby.
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