Author Topic: Toy Kingdom  (Read 62 times)

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Offline Triqster79

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Toy Kingdom
« on: January 24, 2012, 07:55:19 PM »
So I dont know if anyone else has noticed, but Toy Kingdom in Warragul has Warhammer signs up in their window.  I went in today and spoke with Nola, the new manager and had a look at the range available.

These models ARE NOT simply bought from the Dreams and Discoveries stock, they are actually a new purchase from Games Workshop.

I've had dealings with many stockists in the past, and I thought I would offer her some advice on making a go of stocking GW products.  I discussed with her having a gaming table set up (as they have a lot of room) as well as chatted to her about the club.

Nola seemed a bit unsure about whether she would keep the GW line going, as she isnt that familiar with it.  I gave her a basic run-through and will provide her with more details later this week as she asked me to write them down.

We did throw a few ideas around though, and she suggested that even if she doesnt stock the products full time (which she hasnt decided yet), then she may have an order service available; we also discussed that members of WDW may be eligible for a discount to purchase their models from her below retail price (seeing as though the stock would not be just sitting on her shelves waiting to be bought).  I thought this was exceptionally generous of her and a great opportunity for club members as well.

So, I was thinking that if enough members who play GW games showed interest, then perhaps we could again have a stockist in town that carries a decent range, maybe even have a place to fit in a quick game on good gaming boards, and show off any outstanding paint jobs in a glass cabinet (perhaps in the front window) - as well as garner a discount on prices of the ever increasing GW range.  I hope people will back this venture, as its not only good for the club, its members and the store; but its also good for the Warragul and surrounds community.

Let me know what you all think.
"Protect your town then!  I only came here to see your wife and my children!" - Wulfrik

Offline Emperor Fooble

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Re: Toy Kingdom
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 12:47:06 AM »
I'm not one to throw a thorn in the works, but I hope the toy kingdom owner is VERY careful stocking GW. There is no way they will be able to compete with aussie gaming stores (phoenix forge, defiant, scrap dragon ect) as those guys give the best discounts they can barely scraping through much of a profit from GW - hence why the gaming stores to survive have 2 things -
A: A lot of different products, not just from GW but all of the common games and a few of hte not so common.
B: Very important, a LOT of floorspace for people to play and to host tourneys - not because tournaments bring in the dosh, because they really dont, but of the influx of customers it brings, looking to pick up something to fill a just realised gap in their army or just to support the store/its there autopilot must buy.

If they want to stock some, thats great!
My suggestions however:
An order service is a great idea, holding a lot of stock is a great way to lose money and be stuck with boxes of stuff. Having people able to order in what they want means no mess for the business, they only buy stock that is already sold.
For stocking boxes - My biggest suggestion is to have whatever GW is rolling off the production lines, on hand. What I mean is GW is a sales based company now, jibes aside this is what they do - everything is designed to promote the newest release. Having a box of each brand new thing.
Secondly, each army has a few popular units, some quick sales research and web browsing will, or talking to experiences players will be able to give a good rundown of what these are.
Thirdly, codicies/army books are always handy, the new ones WILL sell, and of all the GW range, the army books are the main things players buy even if they dont have said army. They also do not take up much room, and if it all goes wrong are pretty easy to sell up on ebay/second hand.

Also, look at a few alternate companys for use with GW, my main thought being mantic. Have a couple of boxes of Orcs, Dwarves and most importantly given the recent release, undead instead of the GW counterpart to help show value to the parents who are buying. Even just buy them from an ausie store, such as hobbyhub.co, slap on an extra $10 and put on the shelf. With the money saved people can afford MORE hexwraiths, which are selling like hotcakes. PS Not sure if allowed to sell like that without a contract....

As for the shop; having a display case for people to show off cool minis they have done is a golden idea. It promotes the hobby, bringing (mostly) kids into it, gives existing hobbyists a visible target to aspire too and is an easy source of 'painting competition' revenue. Quick example would be once every 2 months, run a comp in which people pay $5 to have a mini in the case on display, with people in the shop able to vote for their fav.
After a month, the hobbyist with the most votes gets a gift voucher to spend at their store. Money going in loops.

The next best thing, if they could set up a couple of tables, with some pieces of terrain (able to cater for 40k or fantasy) to choose from, and say charge $2-3 per game/couple of hours then I can see those tables bought out almost every day, doubly so on weekends. Again easy money for the store, with people paying to advertise the models being sold -----> that shelf Isle 3. Heck I would use this service!
It would be pretty easy terrain wise as well, they could simply request that our club paint up a couple of bits they supply and maybe throw in some homemade/spare pieces in return for all the advertising the club would get. I have no doubt that some of our members would eagerly paint some buildings to help em out.

And lastly, if they have a website, adding a subsection for people to chat and ask about meeting up for a game at the store.

Those are my thoughts and ideas for the moment, hope something is of interest.

Offline Triqster79

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Re: Toy Kingdom
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2012, 08:20:17 AM »
Thanks for the input Fooble.  I just wanted to quickly comment on a few of your points before I started my day.

In regards to being competitive with other stores, and perhaps I'm being naive or idealistic, I think that as a community group in the Warragul community, the club has some minimal obligation to support local businesses.  I know that value for money (especially when it comes to expensive wargaming products) is at the very front of our minds, but having the convenience of a local stockist that provides a discount to club members (no matter how big or small that discount is) is a great opportunity for a local community group.  Maybe I'm a dinosaur in this respect, but shopping in a local store and being able to see and touch the range of products before I purchase them still holds some charm for me.  We also need to remember that Toy Kingdom is first and foremost a toy store, and so not able to compete on price and range (at least not in the early stages of setting up) with some of the dedicated gaming stores you mentioned.  This might not be the cheapest or the biggest range, but it is definitely the most local; and for a business owner in a rural area to offer a discount on products she is not familiar with to a local community group is a very generous offer...one I think it would be foolish not to encourage and take advantage of - even if it means as gamers we need to sacrifice the extra couple of dollars on our purchases that we might save elsewhere.  Even if its just one or two purchases out of your monthly purchasing budget, it all contributes to getting this really up and running (10+ members buying one or two box sets a month - or however often - is a good influx of customers for a small part of the store/stock range).

As far as stocking products from other ranges, I do agree with you.  However, again this manager is unfamiliar with wargaming and in the business sense, it would be very foolish (and very risky) to start out stocking a whole bunch of miniatures from different ranges without having any concrete sales data on how they would sell.  The decision to stock GW was made by someone no longer involved with the business, so for the moment GW it is.  I would think that if she saw enough interest from local wargamers and at a later date we provided her with details for other companies, then if there was enough interest and money to be made (as you say, that is the goal of all business) then she would probably be more than willing to expand her wargaming range.

When it comes to a LOT of floorspace, no-one does it better than Realm of Legends in Croydon.  So I understand where you are coming from.  However, Nola has said there may be enough room for a Fantasy table and a 40K table at this stage.  This is one of the areas where the club joins the party and hosts tournaments, etc.  When last I ran a gaming club, we had a few events outside of our regular meetings - most notably during the Medusa V 40K worldwide campaign way back in the day.  At this event, I invited our local stockist to come set up a stall on one of the days - they did better sales in that one afternoon (in regards to GW) than they did in any other two weeks combined.  Again from a business perspective, a lot of business owners want stock that will move on its own.  Organising additional events is time-consuming in an industry where time is at a premium.  I'm sure that with enough interest and custom that new releases could be celebrated in store in some way, though again it is something that would need some negotiation and ideas when the time came.  The club hosts tournaments, for a store that is not dedicated to wargaming, it would be much more practical to get involved with those club events and perhaps run specials in conjunction with them, than it is to run its own events. 

In regards to stocking new releases, that is kind of how they end up with all that excess stock that nobody buys.  GW push for so many units of this and that, and when its new people get excited and might buy one or two, leaving the others to dust up on the shelves as the next big release comes out.  I think the best way, and I might be wrong here, to stock would be for game systems and armies that are actually played to bulk out the range, with one or two of the new release items as they are released.  Let's face it, if nobody in the area plays Tau, then why have a Tau range - even if they are new and fantastic.  Basically, the way she stocks is ultimately up to her, we can just provide her with some suggestions to make it easier.  Stocking any product you're not sure of is a big risk, but if we want a local stockist willing to communicate and work with the club for the betterment of both, we need to do as much as we're able to reduce that risk in the early stages (at least!).  This means buying stock available, talking with staff to demonstrate interest, utilising ordering facilities when available, and being a presence in the store whenever you have time to spare.  Who knows, if it gets big enough she may need to put on a wargaming person to work there (I'm very happy in my current job but if there are unemployed club members or those looking for a change from their current work...) - this has happened in a couple of stockists I've known previously when the demand was there. 

I totally agree about the army books and expansions.  Every stockist I've seen that has done well carries a range of books.  And as you say, they're a good seller.  This can also be expanded to cover things like RP books for other systems and so on - again, once the interest is established and maintained.

In regards to the display cabinet and painting competitions, this again is something that the club can run with Toy Kingdom providing a venue for display to the public, and the prize (purchased with the entry fee for the competition as you suggested - and maybe from time to time a little extra injected from the store, again requiring negotiation).  Its very easy to run a painting competition.  To begin, I would suggest that all entries are dropped off and paid for at the club meeting, then taken en masse down for display.  For a business not dedicated to wargaming, having staggered drop off, collection, and payment is too much additional work.  Club members can vote on the day, as well as having a voting box or something on top of the display or at the counter (again would need to be negotiated).  This would get the club free advertising, as well as set up that cycle of winnings and spending that you mentioned.  I think its a great idea!

Terrain and boards could certainly be charged for, and would perhaps be a nice little earner, however if people pay for time and a game goes over this could become a hassle for staff.  Again this is something to be negotiated with Nola, and she has said that such a set up would not be possible for a couple of months.  My idea here is that she'd like to see if its worth the outlay on terrain, space, boards, miniatures, etc. by gauging the sales and interest demonstrated.  Knowing that club members would be willing to help out with that is fantastic - and perhaps the club paying or assisting with the purchase and construction of gaming areas would also go a long way to fostering the important, almost symbiotic, relationship between business and club.  Maybe club members (with a membership card) get free play on the tables?  Or something like that...

And lastly, a website for setting up matches?  We have one right here!  No need to reinvent the wheel, this way people find their way to our little corner of the web and can do matchmaking right here - as well as check out all the other conversation threads and maybe get enough interest to stop by at a club meeting, not just the boards in store.

I hope I havent gone on too much, I do have a tendency to do that as anyone who has read any of my posts probably knows by now.  I think this has the potential to be a winning opportunity for all involved - it might not be perfect in all respects, but it is better than nothing at all: and I think it deserves as much support as possible.  Even if members just poke their head into the store over the next couple of weeks to check out their range and make a comment about how great it is to have a stockist again...it all helps I think.

Please, everyone, feel free to pick apart my ideas or agree with them (yay!) or just comment and offer ideas as they come to you.  I hope something I've written here, or others have, rings someone's screaming bell :)
"Protect your town then!  I only came here to see your wife and my children!" - Wulfrik

Offline carson

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Re: Toy Kingdom
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2012, 09:22:57 AM »
When I ran my store I contacted GW about stocking their stuff. Basically you need to buy around $3000-$5000 initial stock, then you must restock every month with a minimum of $250. It's expensive to stock.

Plus a lot of places will sell 20% under retail and offer free or set postage so unless you could match that, it's not worth stocking.

It's a good idea, but I just don't think the player base in this area is big enough for it to be a viable business. The club at it's peak had around 25, maybe 30 people at a meet. The dedicated gaming store in Beaconsfield, Archipeligo, ended up going under and it had a much lager player base and more people played there than here.

I'm a frugal shopper when it comes to gaming, as most people are, so unless you can match the prices that places like Milsims, Defiant, etc. can offer (which is generally 10-20% under retail, it'll be hard to keep afloat.

If it's more games you are after, then I would encourage you to come to the next meet or have some input in to the constitution (which I need to revise again) so we can get the club running formally.

Offline Emperor Fooble

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Re: Toy Kingdom
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2012, 11:53:32 AM »

In regards to stocking new releases, that is kind of how they end up with all that excess stock that nobody buys.  GW push for so many units of this and that, and when its new people get excited and might buy one or two, leaving the others to dust up on the shelves as the next big release comes out.  I think the best way, and I might be wrong here, to stock would be for game systems and armies that are actually played to bulk out the range, with one or two of the new release items as they are released.  Let's face it, if nobody in the area plays Tau, then why have a Tau range - even if they are new and fantastic.  Basically, the way she stocks is ultimately up to her, we can just provide her with some suggestions to make it easier.  Stocking any product you're not sure of is a big risk, but if we want a local stockist willing to communicate and work with the club for the betterment of both, we need to do as much as we're able to reduce that risk in the early stages (at least!).  This means buying stock available, talking with staff to demonstrate interest, utilising ordering facilities when available, and being a presence in the store whenever you have time to spare.  Who knows, if it gets big enough she may need to put on a wargaming person to work there (I'm very happy in my current job but if there are unemployed club members or those looking for a change from their current work...) - this has happened in a couple of stockists I've known previously when the demand was there. 

I couldnt think of anything better! Being paid to live around little mans and get more people into the hobby would be the bomb. And it would give a good reason as to why I am snooping around a toy store looking for useful bits.
If that ever becomes a reality, lemme know!

Hunting for a better job aside, I have to agree with what Carson bluntly stated. Money is tight, mandollies are very expensive and independant stockists offer superior savings. But that aside, it sounds like they have already bought the stock and started it up - so I think we should help her as best as we can, and that includes being honest about the expense, competition and our seemingly limited playerbase. As well as everything mentioned above.
I strongly believe, that there are two things, and two things ONLY that are keeping indie stockists alive. Gimmicks, and customer loyalty. Most of the stores seem to have a very strong and loyal fanbase. Yay. Gimmicks range from discounts, table space, free stuff, anything to give an edge over GW and competition.

Having 1-2 (or more) tables at the store, with a tub or two of terrain is great. Paying for time works with pool tables, and big bad meanie bikers are considered a lot less honest then kids at a toy kingdom. Enforcing the time limit exactly is a bad idea, having a little bit of leeway so that people can finish their game, depending on any waiting ques ect. Anyone who can run a store will have the nouse to run a pair of tables.

Having the club and store work together is a wonderful idea, but I think we are struggling every bit as much as she is, looking at GW order forms and thinking 'who the heck spends $60 on 10 of these space marine thingos'
Having the store advertise for us is nice, but it would be nicer if we had a decent playerbase to buy crap at the store ;p

I would be willing, to run a tournament. I could design it independantly rather easily, I have a business lined up that would be ready to offer discounted prize support, and could advertise myself. After writing up a draft I would present it to the club head honchos to check over the funds.
Asking toys to supply prizes is a but much this quick.

Ehh gotta go to work, add more later.

Offline carson

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Re: Toy Kingdom
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2012, 02:50:03 PM »
Why would I pay for a table when I can organise a game here and get friends to come over and play? Paying for a table just does not seem like a good idea.

Offline carson

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Re: Toy Kingdom
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2012, 02:53:32 PM »
Quote
Having the club and store work together is a wonderful idea, but I think we are struggling every bit as much as she is, looking at GW order forms and thinking 'who the heck spends $60 on 10 of these space marine thingos'
Having the store advertise for us is nice, but it would be nicer if we had a decent playerbase to buy crap at the store ;p
Hobby Heaven supported the club for ages. But even he ended up with more stock than he could shift.

Quote
but I think we are struggling every bit as much as she is
If you are referring to the club, that would be because I've been doing everything solo for so damn long and just don't have the time or energy any more. Plus the constitution never went anywhere, even though it's been almost done for 10months.

Offline Triqster79

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Re: Toy Kingdom
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2012, 09:11:47 PM »
Well, in regards to start up costs, it would seem that they've already been paid by Toy Kingdom.  I contacted GW today to get some idea of how the stockist system works, from the horse's mouth so to speak.  I spoke with one of the business managers and Warragul Toy Kingdom is set to appear in the stockist list at the back of February's White Dwarf.  This means they have an active account, and the decision to become a stockist has been made.

There is certainly a minimum spend per week for a stockist, however this is not a set amount, but rather to be negotiated based on the customer base and the business manager's/sales rep's discussions with the stockist.

The main thing to come from my discussion with the business manager today, was that the main reason that stockists fail is because their gaming community does not support them.  Stock and sale levels can be lowered, as long as there are sufficient and solid marketing reasons for the reduction.  The lack of interest in the community is not one of those reasons.

Yes I agree that other places sell it cheaper.  Do they sell locally?  It was my understanding that a club is a community group, and in my experience, community groups only do well if they engage with the community.  Advertising in a stockist, and developing a good relationship with a stockist, is an excellent way to earn new members; even if they are only casual members.  Each of those members pay their admission fee each month, or their financial dues for yearly membership.  As I've said in previous posts, on different topics, I have directed a number of people to the club through my work at EB Games (when they buy a GW based game, or Magic cards).  Most of those people were not at all aware that there was a club in town.  If even one of them actually comes to a meeting, surely that's a win no matter how small.

With a visible presence in a local business, backed up by product support, this could indeed result in a rise in memberships.

As for myself, I work most Saturdays and so havent been able to attend a meeting as yet.  I've also been dealing with health issues.  I would love to become more involved with the club, as I have previous experience running gaming clubs and dealing with local stockists and frankly, love running club campaigns, events and tournaments - perhaps it massages the control freak in me.  I will try my best to be a presence in the club this year, now that things are settling in my life; and hope that (without being too pushy) I can give Carson a hand with running the club; especially if he feels he is doing the work alone.  I know how taking on the workload of a group can tire you out.

All I'm asking any WDW member to do is keep an open mind.  Express interest in the fact that someone is actually taking steps, and listening to, ways to help club members.  It might not be a 20% discount when the discount arrives, but it is a local business willing to lend its support - and lord knows she certainly doesnt need to.  Do we really want another store to go the way of Hobby Heaven, just so we can save a couple of bucks?  Just poke your head in, say hello, how great it is that GW products will be stocked, and lend the new manager a bit of support and positive attitude to the club and gaming.  It may end up that kids in the area do all the buying for you and you wont need to make sacrifices on price yourself.

I, myself, will be buying from Toy Kingdom.

(This has nothing to do with playing more games, just utilising a local resource to get the word out on my hobby; and I thought that club members might appreciate someone contacting the stockist and providing in-roads for developing a relationship between store and club; sorry if that over-stepped any bounds)
"Protect your town then!  I only came here to see your wife and my children!" - Wulfrik